Hey, I don't assume people have the same know-how as I do, believe me I'm surrounded by people who don't know jack about computers and they are always coming to me for help. But, firstly, if your going to be using a computer, or doing anything for that matter, you should at least have a handle on the basics. That would count using a mouse. This can be done easily via friends or some simple guides around the place and that kinda thing (honestly though, POINT and CLICK/DOUBLE CLICK, even a three year old can do that). Now if you have the basics, you should be able to get onto the internet or something and easily find out on the thousands of sites that say "go to Control Panel, go to User Accounts etc etc". Short of that, ring somebody up, say Microsoft or someone you bought the computer off. It isn't exactly rocket science to ask for help. God ask your next door neighbour or their kids or something, somebody might know at least something if you just ask! You never know till you try.

Next, I didn't counter point myself. I was admitting that at first when nobody had a damn clue about Vista, it was ungodly evil but now DRM has mostly been overcome so it's of no real concern and as I just stated, turning off UAC isn't that hard these days. And as I said in the sentence right after the two you quoted, they have been overcome for at least the most part.

Now, I do know that XP runs better for things over Vista, but I have a question, what do you expect? It sucks up less resources, I'm sure if you were running a program on Vista and then on XP, XP would be better, and I'm sure if you did it on say something like 98 or 2000, it would be better again cause the OS is sucking up less of the resources of the computer. It's just common sense that as computers get better and better, the OS will get bigger and fancier and all that, but thus suck up more of the resources. I'm sure that Windows 8, 9, 10 w/e will look like V8 engines compared to a V4 or something, but it is to be expected, seriously.

Finally, you are right about the fact that this article doesn't really take a good look at the whole Vista thing, but still, this person is right, the OS is fine as soon as you get past the whole UAC, DRM, and system requirements.

You just contradicted yourself again.

quote

there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the OS

quote

Now, I do know that XP runs better for things over Vista

If the previous OS runs better than the current generation OS, that == problem.

Bringing up a three year old is redundant to the topic at hand. A three year old doesn't know how to subdue any DRM issues, or, turn off the UAC let alone know what an OS, PC, or Mouse is. This applies to any non-tech savvy user; Of course they could ask someone to shut it off for them but how do they even know that it can be circumvented in the first place? The majority of people don't. Again, this is the assumption that they are on par, or, close to your level of degree in technological knowledge. This is why a lot of end-user complaints are "Vista sucks" because they don't know otherwise. There are business/IT points to why Vista fails but that's symantics to this discussion, google wil turn you up something without needing me to explain them.

To test my theory you can do the following. Do a fresh install of Vista on a PC and let your parents, or, grandparents use the PC. Ask them in a couple weeks things they found annoying. Did they turn DRM or the UAC (or any other issues) off let alone ask you to turn it off for them? I'm going to say no, because they don't even know it's a resolvable problem in the first place. They assume it's just something that's supposed to happen and live with it without knowing there are choices and sollutions.

Question, you buy a car but it can only get up to 20/Mph, you get a blinking red warning light and you need to turn the ignition key every time you do something minor such as putting on a turn signal, turn on your wipers, etc. Of course, all these issues can be circumvented as there are sollutions to resolving these to get your car working properly. Does your car suck? Should you be required to manually adjust your car to resolve these annoyances?

The funny thing is that your example is dealing with people that probably need the UAC because they're going to end up with *bleep* shit destroying their computers anyways.

The thing that you're missing with your analogy is that it's absolutely nothing like doing basic shit with your car. Does your car make a ringing sound and have flashing lights when you don't buckle in your seatbelt? Yes, it does. You know what else? It usually continues to happen until you either buckle your seatbelt in or disable the warning altogether. That would be a far better analogy. Does not buckling in your seatbelt mean you're going to crash? No. Does the light actually force you to buckle the seatbelt in? No. Does it make you think about what you're doing? Yes, it does.

UAC is an easy fix and someone that doesn't know how to disable it should probably be using it anyways.

I just explained it. I'm keeping an open mind here and seeing your point of view but you don't seem to get where I'm coming from. So I'm going to keep this quick and simple. Vista = Works bloody fine, sucks up some more resources because it has more stuff. XP runs better because it has less stuff going on thus more resources to play around with thus better performance, this is to be expected unless you upgrade your computer's hardware. If Vista didn't have more stuff, we'd be looking at simply another XP-ish OS and that would be pointless. Let's think of it this way, you have an old game. It's fun and works perfectly fine, has decent graphics, etc etc. A sequel comes out, it's flashier, has more stuff, better graphics, etc but needs a better processor and a bit more ram to run the new improvements. Does it not make sense that since there is better graphics and such in the newer game, that you need newer stuff to run it right? If that wasn't true, then we'd NEVER EVER EVER need to upgrade our computers for anything. Last I checked, that was flat out wrong.

Next, the three year old comment wasn't meant to be taken terribly seriously. If you honestly think that I thought a three year old would know about DRM and the UAC then your missing the point. I was pointing out how simple using a mouse is. Little kids can easily use a mouse if you just quickly show em how in simple language. You point, and you click. That's it. If a 25 year old or an 80 year old wants to use the computer and can't work that out in the first 5-10 minutes, then they honestly shouldn't be doing anything with a computer full stop. Short of that, they really should be having someone over their backs the entire time.

It's funny you bring up that little test. Recently I reinstalled Vista on desktop computer, had just finished and my Mum came into the room and she has absolutely NO HOPE with computers without someone saying "click here, click there, press this, press that" and to top it off, she's partly blind so it makes things particularly slow, I was directing her to start some installs cause I was busy with my other computer, and after 3 times the UAC came up, she instantly asked "Can you turn this thing off? It's really annoying". If you think that absolutely nobody is going to ask that question, then again your dead wrong. I realize that not everybody will ask that question, but seriously, a lot of people will if their using a computer on a semi-regular basis. I also understand that some people can't turn off the UAC by themselves, but as I said, there's plenty of guides out there, and they aren't all online. Hell, you could go to a local shop and pick up some starter guide to Vista or something and just follow it. If you have no idea about computers and aren't getting any help, you should do that in the first place. It's common sense when it comes to something as complex as a computer. Would you try and build a stereo unit if you didn't have a clue about putting things together? No, you'd go ask someone or go buy a guide or follow an instruction manual. Otherwise you're simply asking for trouble.

Your car analogy bites by the way. Tell me, do you buy a car without giving it a quick test drive? You know how cars are meant to work, you've seen cars for a long long time and you know exactly what their like, nobody would buy a car like that because there are better ones on the market. Regardless, lets say for the hell of it someone did buy that car knowing all it's flaws, or finding out all it's flaws after they get it. Lets say it was a brand new car, that's about $20,000 typically. Now, you just used $20,000 to buy this car, it doesn't work super well and you can't get a refund or anything like that on it, what does that leave you with? Selling it or fixing it. Your not gonna sell it, second hand stuff generally go for at least half the price they were bought for, if not 1/3rd or less. That means your going to fix it. How to fix it if you don't have a clue? You ask someone, do a little research, take it to a shop. Whatever. The end result is your car is fixed up and you can use it like any other car.

You know what, have you even used Vista? A fresh install with no un-needed extra bullshit installed? Have you used it on a decent computer build? Tried various things? Have you had an epic amount of trouble clicking a few things, have you had a heap of problems finding out how to turn off something like the UAC? God if you can use XP you can use Vista.

It's 10am and I've been up since 7am yesterday, I really don't see the point in continuing this debate as I really do doubt we're gonna sway one another. How bout we just agree to disagree.