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Flower was just released today on the Playstation Network. It tries to do something that many other games don't, and is causing a stir between gamers and critics. The article is mainly about how the game is judged mostly on first impressions, and how the game is very different. Pushsquare.com argues that gamers should broaden their horizons and try not to be so blatantly ignorant with different games as its good to help progress gaming.
Released on PSN today, flower is dividing the gaming world all over.
To quote the developer, thatgamecompany, flower is the “videogame version of a poem, exploiting the tension between urban bustle and natural serenity”. It’s easy to understand from this short quote and a screenshot why flower is causing such a stir in the industry. But should it?
Additional sources:
- Flower Too Good For Sony Fanboys? (cinemablend.com)
Latest comment:
Most recently commented on by on Feb 20, 2009
Most recently commented on by on Feb 20, 2009
Comments
If you don't like a game, either hold your tongue (or fingers, in this case), or give a better reason than "it sounds gay."
I guess this game really is different
Oh, if I have to make things simple for you, I was being sarcastic.
That game is crap with a capital C. what is the point to it? no achievements, no reason, no purpose, no need. Thats the way the world is now. OH LETS ALL GO PICK VIRTUAL FLOWERS AND LEAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO SOMEONE ELSE
Whatever the hell that's supposed to be taken to mean...
Also, we commented at the exact same time, so I didn't see your comment.
If you don't like this game, don't buy it. Simple as that.
I'm not gonna buy it, clearly, I'm not THAT much of a hypocrite
Anyway, Key word there being, passion. there needs to be that response, because that is a reaction. That is THE reaction that is needed, when trying to do something like this; you can't be liberal, you can't be undecisive, you cant hold back when creating something like this. SOME people will get the point of this, good luck to you if you enjoy it. Others will simply be bored by it and it'll ufortunatly be lost on them, because it fails to reach that certain height which switches on their mind. If you have to say to people "this is what its trying to do", then simply said, it has failed to do it. It should be enough, just to listen to a piece of music, or just to look at an awe-inspiring painting, or just to watch a heart-touching film, or Just to PLAY a game. I don't like this man. If you have to hold someone's hand and walk them through what its supposed to be doing, then its not doing it properly. its failed. They should have some balls, and create something of substance, and do something that makes full use of the creative medium they are using. This game, will never compete with real nature, and it shouldnt be TRYING to, but it seems it is. It is what it is, its a game. as such, they should eccentuate the fact that you can do things here, that are not possible in our existance. This game is lame. This game represents everything that I believe is wrong with the World today. They have a relative cause. and a relative effect. a dulling of the mind man.
The thing is you actually can't see that they did make full use of the medium. They did do something that other companies dare not even touch. And it succeded with many critics and fans alike. And I don't think the game is trying to compete with nature at all, its trying to make you a part of nature. By moving the wind you are being a part of nature. And by that you are causing a reaction, reaction that has been a part of humans for ages. Nature has always pulled at humans dreams, and flower tries to reignite that connection. And that is just one of the things the game tries to emotionaly achieve.
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.
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Lol, this article was so right.
If I couldnt see that, then how could I claim that it fails? I see that they CLAIM to do that. but it doesnt do that. look at your tv screen, look out the window. GO OUTSIDE, and be with nature. and you will get a bigger high than this game could ever create. And this game will become obsolete. Because when you remove that element there, of the nature, you have nothing left. It contributes nothing on a virtual level. Create something intentional; puzzles for the mind, mind-altering colours and sounds, a whole life, AND THEN juxtapose that over nature, and you will have something of substance on your gaming system. But they don't do that. It does not feed the mind, it does not get the mind working. They leave out the intelligent stuff, because people dont wanna deal with it, which is the same reason that they're playing a game about flowers instead of pursueing an interest in the REAL thing. There's a reason this hasn't been done before, it's because it's shit.
And this is all fair enough. If that's what this is, then that's what this is. If this game, is simply a Lite relaxed laid back game for winding down, then I have no problem with that. But if it is, then you must play it like that. and dont fool yourself into thinking its something more than it is, and dont tell people it's something more than it is, and raise their expectation. It is a sub-game. therefore it must be used and spoken of AS a sub-game. It has intentionally been created as something unimportant and without obvious purpose. So you have to let it be, and let it take its place as an unimportant minor enjoyment. If you don't like that, then create something that IS important. and Create something that DOES invoke a reaction, and DOES achieve, and is Self-made and stands on its own. But if you're not gonna do that, then you're not gonna achieve that.
The bottom line? No one is going to change their decision about this game from your bickering, because it is what it is. Its a game that appeals to certain crowds (according to you, the "gay" crowd) and is a very relaxing game to play. I love it, and I'm sure thousands of other people do too. Thats the point of this game.
**Who's willing to bet this dumb ass replies with a 3-paragraph reason why I'm wrong/gay/stupid/any other adjective/verb for liking this game?**
After watching a review I decided to buy it.
HA HAAH GO DO STAND UP YOU FUNNY MAN
I don't like what you said because I'm afraid you may be right? Please get over yourself.Do you honestly think I give a shit about whether you end up being right? The answer to that would be big fat no.I'm not an insecure idiot who's going to give a damn what you get right or prove.
Purposelessness is up to the individual, just because you think so doesn't make it a fact.I don't see the point in playing unranked games online but that doesn't mean unranked serves no purpose.
But no you are one of these people that is so damn closed minded that you can't grasp the reasons for someone liking something you dislike.I didn't really like GTAIV but that didn't make me oblivious to why others thought differently.
Yet you think it's completely fine to decide that Flower is meaningless and people shouldn't enjoy it.
You've taken the liberty of a LOT of assumptions there. You're only human I suppose. You proved my point, by saying BLAH BLAH BLAH. you claim that i am close minded; yet you are being close minded yourself by dismissing my argument in such a way, just because you disagree. Tell me where you disagree if that is the case. Dont just say "YOURE WRONG LALALALAL IGNORANCE IS BLISS LALALAA" discuss it, and then it'll become quite clear quite quick who has put thought into their ideas and who is bluffing.
Purpose is indeed what you make for yourself. BUT, in this game, there is no way to make purpoise for yourself. It's just flowers and plants man, nothing more - if you really wanna make a purpose of that, then GO AND GROW some real ones and you can nurture them and watch them grow and eat them; THAT has purpose. this game has absolutely no point.
the rest of what you said is bullshit, I never said video games are from the devil, I never said that I cant grasp that people like what i dont like. Give me somthing to discuss and we'll discuss, dont make childish claims mate.
Also, If you "dont give a shit if im right", then you yourself have no right to tell me i'm wrong.
I never said this. I never said people should not enjoy it, don't be absurd. I said, that this game fails to achieve the height it claims to. therefore, if you do play it and enjoy it, play and enjoy it for what it is; which is something unimportant and pointless. if you want a point and purpose, THEn dont play it, because you wont find it. But if you're happy with mindless gaming, then go for it, what anyone else says doesnt matter. Not for something more thats not there. I would expect people to defend their own idea, if they disagree with me. But I see no one doing that. i see people trying to invalidate what I say, yet I do not do this to anyone. I give my idea, you give your idea. If we dont agree we'll shake hands and move on.
You obviously don't get my point.My point was that all your negativity was what made me want to look into the game much like people like JT going on about how evil video games are likely make people want to play the very games he talks crap about.
Actually it's not pointless.Why do we play video games? Because we want to have fun.Therefore if someone has fun with it then it did indeed serve a purpose.
Another way I can see this game as not pointless is this; say you have had a stressful day at work, you come home you put this game on and the peaceful soothing music, gorgeous graphics and simple gameplay helps you to relax.
Third of all, it''s not up to you to decide what the "correct" and "acceptable" amount of opinion is. If you do not read the 2 pages of opinion, fair enough. But then you simply have no grounds to argue against any of it without reading. Unless you're a liar, in which case your opinion is of no value.
**psst...lets see how long he bitches about this...**
Bottom line, end of the day, other generic summing up saying - this game is something, that does not achieve. I have no problem with the flower aspect.
Do you see yet?
You wanna stop projecting your own insecurities, and try and listen and address the actual argument at hand. I'm not talking about the fact that this game is about flowers. I'm talking about the fact, and you KNOW this which is why you're getting all uppity; the FACT, that this game, does not achieve anything, does not switch anything on. How can you compare a stick man drawing to a picasso painting? They're both art, of course. But one, is underdeveloped, and lacking, whilst the other, ACHIEVES something. You must accept which is which, and what they are and what they do. Play this game if you enjoy it. But don't pretend that it's something more than it is. thats whats gay man.
Who are you talking to? OH HAHAHA LETS ALL PRETEND WE'RE LIGHT HEARTED BY SHINING A LIGHT TOWARDS PEOPLE AND BE SARCASTIC WHEN ACTUALLY WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE LEFT TO SAY HHHHHHHHHHHAAAAA.no. If you have nothing intelligent to say, then stop typing. No one is "bitching". I'm afraid the problem is you lack the ability to have a proper sharing of ideas. And again, you're pretending you can. Thats no good. be honest to yourself my friend, honesty is the path to righteousness.
Examples:
If you like driving games so much, why don't you go out and drive?
If you like sports games so much, why don't you go play sports?
If you like first-person shooters so much, why don't you join the army?
etc.
But then also, you have the simulation games. For example, What would it be LIKE to be a race car driver? or What would it be like to be a Soldier? Or a Boxer? Or anything. And those sort of games have their own purpose, their own niche that they fill - for a taste of that life. But when it gets down to it, if you REALLY REALLY enjoy it, more than anything else, then the best thing for you would be to pursue that particular avenue in Real life - go BE the race car driver, or the soldier, or the boxer, or the cook or the athlete. Otherwise, all it is is a minor enjoyment. and I'll say it again; there's nothing wrong with that - it's the little things that make up life. But you have to KNOW that it's a little thing, and it's not important. The way it is today though, is that people dont wanna make a commitment like that. they dont wanna have the responsibility on their shoulders of actually BEING something. In which case, you may save yourself from hardship, BUT you'll also "save" yourself from anything of any meaning, substance, or actual achievement and real joy.
As Lincoln Park Fan put it:
flower is nothing like gardening from what I understand.
Well shockingly enough:
Mario Kart is nothing like driving.
FIFA 09 is nothing like playing football at my level.
(I presume) Halo 3 is nothing like joining the army.
That's EXACTLY the point I was making.
There, I saved you a lot of time.
Nothing personal, I just don't dislike GTA enough to consciously let you carry on
I think it sounds gay too.
Am jus' sayin'.
Now you are just blatenly wrong. Because almost every video game is unimportant and pointless. And if your looking a point, don't play it? Then how come so many people have found and seen the point of the game? Huh? I guess its one of the few games that does actualy have a point and isn't complete mindless violence.
That has no relevance AT all to what I said. I didn't say don't play it. I said, I WONT be playing it. You dont need my permission to do things
My point IS, that yes indeed MOST all games are pointless when you compare them to life. BUT, if you get enjoyment out of playing them, then continue playing them, AS a recreation, much as you would play a sport or draw a picture or whetever. AND KNOW, that this is a game. and this is something not important; don't pretend like tis the best thing in the world, because if it was, then you'd wanna try and pursue it as much as possible, which would logicaaly lead you to recreating it in your life. What I don't like, is when they start to try and replace our reality, and our lifes. Mindless violence, at least has a purpose - you PLAY that game for the purpose of letting off steam and of the competition, for the purpose of engaging in a "game" that isnt real, and you know it isnt real, and as such it allows you to do things you may be otherwise unable to experience. Racing games, allow you to race and be competitive; BUT, as a GAME and a game only, and so you'll get none of the rewards that a real race of life would bring. this "game" allows you to do what? heal nature. There's no competitiveness to it. There's no goal to it, there's no achievement to it. Instead of playing this game, I put it to you, that if you REALLY do enjoy this game, then you will get 1000000 times more enjoyment out of ACTUALLY healing nature and helping the world, even if it is only ONE plant. or only ONE crop you grow. Because what this game is, is a cop-out. I'm sorry, but thats what it feels like to me. What it feels like, id this whole "modern" mindset, of doing things that dont matter or have no effect. If its a game, then play it as a game, with the wins and losses and competition that a game brings. if you remove those aspects, then you have no reason to be playing a game. BEcause THOSE aspects, are the only things that can make up for the lack of senses and tangibility and actual REALNESS that you dont find in games.
So instead of this game, i will go outside. and i will feel the wind on my face and i'll get the reward of seeing my plants grow, and i'll have the purpose of reseeding this earth. if i wasnt so lazy that is
you indeed know you are, you should be happy I even aknowledged this with a response
If you're not sharing then there's point in participating. If all you're doing is crying and wailing and trying to get someone to stop speaking because you dont agree, then that is a very dispicable act. Contribute, or dont contribute. I will continue to contribute regardless.
I dont care, who plays it and who doesnt, thats none of my business. The bare-bones problem i have, or not problem but Disagreement we'll say; is of people acting like its so much more than it is. Its a crappy pointless game. Thats all it is. Maybe there's nothing else like it, but most certainly there are things that are better than it, and that tick all the right boxes. IF you get a bit of enjoyment out of playing it, then go for it. But my point was, there are things that do what this does, a LOT better. That's why it divides opinion. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's controversial. Bottom line, it'll be forgotten in a month.
The reality is that you are just a troll who wants to start an argument for the sake of arguing.....when you're done bitching up a storm on GG, you will masturbate to the infuriated comments and move on to play Cooking Mama or some shit on the Wii.
**see above**
you're a slave to anti-trend then. same sheep, different shepherd. But again, makes no difference to me. What i dont like is the liars, i couldnt care less what it is they're lying about. same difference.
It has no purpose to fulfill within the game, therefore limiting your achievements, and limiting your fun. Dont pretend like its the best thing in the world, (if im correct you never made such a claim, in which case i apologise, but i speak of the people that DO make that claim)If it is a crappy relaxation game, then thats what it is. nothing more nothing less. its not ground-breaking. there are more involved ways of relaxing rather than simply switching off your brain and going into a dull comatose state. But different strokes for different folks, whatever floats your boat and so on. end of the day, it is what it is. thats all that matters. but do you play it for what it is? or do you have some other indistinct reason.
[quote=carouselambra]
Whatever you say.I have my own mind and choose what I like regardless of what anyone else thinks.I may not follow trends but I don't choose to do so just to be different to everyone else.Whatever someone else chooses to do is of no concern to me.
So what? What was the point of playing games like Pac Man, Tetris, Pong, Space Invaders? Nothing but people still play those games to this day.
Things don't need a purpose.
Nope I have not claimed that.In fact it took me quite a while to decide if I wanted to buy it.
My two cents: The game rocks. Different, Unique, and Refreshing. Casual but
lightweight entertainment.
The consensus is that this is an expression of joy and an affirmation of life, beauty and hope.
To anyone who says that something that evokes such emotion in such a disparate group of people is pointless, I say that your life must be exceedingly cynical and drab.
What point a poem? What point a painting? What point a meal that does more than provide sustenance?
The point is experience and enrichment of the spirit. To share common feelings and express common fears.
carouselambra, you are entitled to your opinion. That's the great thing about subjective opinion, rather than objective fact; There is no right or wrong. There is simply experience which tells its own truth to the person who encounters it.
You last sentence there, couldnt have said it better myself.
But, rather than get all existential and pretentious, I would like to address the point you made that the way the game is being presented is as a revolution. I feel that this is the main issue you have. Would I be correct in assuming that you see gaming as merely a diversion? A transient entertainment and nothing more? And your feeling of offence is towards the presentation of a game as pretending beyond its pigeonhole? I must say that this is how I interpret your comments.
If so then might I be so bold as to present a counterpoint?
To my mind Gaming Technology will replace the current mass media entertainment within my lifetime. There will be games which can be experienced passively (like TV programmes or film) but which you can choose to interact with if you wish. I predict Rom-Com interactive "games" as well as the conflict and solution-based experiences we have today. It's all there, just waiting to be developed. The revolutionary thing about Flower is that it is the first game to prove to me that this is possible. As a game it can be experienced on many levels. I do not expect you to "trust" me as you do not know me, but the following ways in which Flower engages me comprises my experience thus far:
On my wall-mounted TV it works as a drifting picture. As good as any painting I might buy (if a little ecologically unsound due to the energy consumption - ironic ain't it)
As a game it works as a flight simulator, swooping and curling from air to grass and hillock.
As a game it works as puzzle..Find all the flowers, release all the petals.
As music the soundtrack is as good as a lot of modern classical pieces. It is also interactive, responding to your movements and actions in the gamespace.
As passive entertainment it tells a story about the power of nature to overcome and renew. It has light and dark, good and evil.
As a thought-provoking treatise on what industrialisation does to the environment it is a talking point and allows me to discuss such themes with my kids.
And, finally, as a contrast to the pressure of work it is a different type of catharsis to shooting the head off a super mutant or similar.
Make of that as you will.
And by real, I mean something you can touch, and smell, and see, and so can everyone around you. Where will it stop - are we going to end up creating an entire secondary virtual life for ourselves? Become slaves to machines? I believe, that this game contributes nothing as a game. I've said it before, I'll say it again. HONESTY, is what is important. KNOW why you do things, and KNOW what you do. If you play it to relax, then thats all it is its a relaxation therapy for yourself, KNOW thats what it is. If you play it to push your mind, which is possible with ANYTHING, but more prominant when an actual purpose has been built in, then so-be-it, you use it to push your intelligence or philosophies, and know that you use it as such. If you play it, because you have NO particular reason, but just like to play through, then so-be-it, it is pointless and KNOW that you do it for no reason; that IS your reason, if you understand
And, also, I do not live my life in fear of what the mindless do, say or believe. I will not compromise because a few (or a many) souls do not act like me or believe what I do. I influence, and am influenced by, those whom I encounter or who inspire me. The others are not my concern. Willful ignorance cannot be cured. I choose to let it, and its proponents, have no dominion over me.
EVERYTHING needs a purpose. OR rather, everything HAS a purpose, or it will cease to be. I am arguing that, this game has no objectives within it, and as such there is no purpose to play it; BECAUSE without the objectives, the purpose of this game is simply relaxation. And a big part of that relaxation is the nature element. You can find nature in a much more satisfying and engaging manner, in your everyday life. So what are you left with in this game? Not much.
The purpose of pacman, tetris, streetfighter, whatever; is as a recreation. A game. OF trying to beat that game - tetris pushes your mind to be quick and move shapes, pacman tests your reflexes and sets a challenge of eating all the dots, streetfighter is more advanced as there is quite clearly an obvious purpose to it. BUT, these are purposes WITHIN the game. These are unimportant. You play these games, as a game. They're not trying to replace any sort of aspect of your life. They're there purely for enjoyment. you might manage to draw away some skills such as reflex or attentiveness that can be later applied to your life, but they are overall, not important.
A game like Flower, if its there purely for enjoyment, then play it, enjoy it no worries. BUT the very NATURE of this game, the very reason for its being, draws doubt on that. It allows for you to play it, as a replacement for life, for nature, for proper appreciation of the world. It devalues it to the level of a game. And then people stop playing it as an enjoyment, they start playing it as a replacement for the real thing. and then what happens? the real thing dies. and maybe then, if we're lucky, people will realise what they've lost. But most likely, they wont, makes no difference because whats gone is gone. No, what'll happen is they'll slip further and further into their virtual "lives", they'll slip further and further into occupating themselves with utilising these unimportant avenues, IN PLACE of the real thing. And all progression will stop, all achievement will stop, all impact will stop, because the only thing that ties together our very BEING, is the influences we have on each other. The inputs we share, the experiences we cherish. these will all become void. In place of something that hails from the void.
But as i say, if you're just playing purely for recreation, not as a substitute for reality, then you dont have to worry about that.
thats fair enough, if its true, then good for you. there's no other way to truly live, I do believe.
I believe also we have nothing left to argue about
Sounds like a game experience to me!
Personally, I get hay fever so the appeal of a pastoral landscape is purely aesthetic. The reality gets up my nose!
Still though, your hay fever is a stronger reaction, is a stronger experience than you'd get from pure aesthetica is it not? It may be a bad one. but thats 2 sides of a coin, the good and the bad. without the good you'll have no bad. but without the bad you'll lose the good also.
Contribute something to the discussion, or keep shtum mate. If you were inclined to use those 2 brain cells in your head, you would have realised that I dont care if people play it or not, this is a discussion of ideas and opinions. If you dont wanna hear anyone else's, then they have no reason to hear your's.
Once again, proving my point. Who gives a shit about worthless gaygrep points? its all about the ideas mate. its about the words here and now, not about a point-less system of points for worthless non-existant ranks.
p.s. since you love debating, I suggest checking out the I.E. forum, I think ou will fit perfectly there
I've got no problem with anyone who likes playing it, all I ask is for honesty, that's all. I understand the appeal of it. My point was, that there are other things that have the same appeal, and if you like something like this, you'll get more joy out of those. IT would be a waste if no-one played this, it would be a shame, because it's there. But, play it for what it is, that's all I'm saying. It's nothing more, nothing less. Don't pretend that it's something that is a life experience. Just play it, and if you like it you like it, if you dont, you dont. Simple. But it's being presented, as something that EVERYONE should experience, which is absurd. Because if you start questioning, WHY they say that, and WHAT it is, you'll come to the conclusion that people have something lacking in their life. And that they shouldnt be looking to fulfill that need with a virtual game, but rather with a reality. Just play it, or dont. Theres no need for the claims. It's only a game.
Well if you actually played the game (no I am not telling you to play it) then you would realise that this game actually contains something you can't do in the real world.If you tell me you can can repair cities merely by floating some flower petals over a flower then I will tell you to get off of drugs lol.
The game basically tells you that the world could be a better place (in this game looks wise) if we made it so.
Now I'm sure you're now going to tell me and everyone else that those things don't make the game have a purpose.
The thing is you will never truly know why some people like this game so much.
I thought it was amazing because it was so very soothing even heartwarming.It is so relaxing to play this game.Hell the game even made me feel a little sad.Which is not a bad thing like you would expect.
I dont say go do gardening. I dont even say you SHOULD go heal the world. What i say is, if thats why you're playing this game, then stop playing the game and do some real actual action. If you're playing this just as a game and you dont give a shit about the world, then fair enough, BECAUSE all it is is a game. But if you didnt give a shit you wouldnt be playing this game. Therin lies my problem. deception and self-deception. If you're a bad person dont pretend that you're not. If you wanna change, you have to first know where you're at. And if you DONT wanna change, well then theres no need for the self-deception.
Seriously man, you'd actually be better off doing drugs rather than believing what you do in this game actually means anything. at least then you might achieve something.
You go on an on about doing things in game for real if possible You're nothing more that a god dam broken record.Seriously I have never heard someone talk so much about the same damn thing.You know there is such thing as enjoying things in a game that you may not actually want do in the real world or don't want to experience the consequences of doing it in the real world.Take skating for example, I like skating games but I don't feel like doing it in the real world because I don't want to be breaking a bone every damn month or two.Oh and I guess that seeing as I enjoy running innocent people over and blowing their brains out in GTA, maybe I should stop pretending to do it in a video game and do it in the real world because it is completely possible to do so.
Now you're going to go on about how doing something like in flower is completely different than playing a game about killing people.But it doesn't matter because it's the same principal that you keep on yammering on about.The only difference is that killing people is absurd unless you're a psychopath.
Seriously from your posts you seem to one of those damn annoying people that has to have the last word even if it means saying the same damn thing over and over again.Hell I wouldn't be surprised if you have a damn superiority complex.
Seriously you think you are so damn smart by shutting down every god damn thing someone says.That just makes you annoying.
Now feel free to talk shit saying I can't handle a mature conversation or whatever bullshit you you want to say 'cause I really don't give a damn what you think and I've had enough of reading your constant regurgitating posts about doing things in the real world instead of pretending to do it in a game.
Im gonna answer this. Like this. If you REALLY enjoy killing people in a video game, then you ARE a psychopath. But you dont go and do it in the real world, because you are VERY aware that there are consequences - and these people in this game are being presented as somethin virtual and unimportant that doesnt matter, which would quite frankly make almost anyone who plays it a pyschopath, in terms of the gameplay. Ergo, if the bad things dont matter in virtuality, then neither do the good things. If you enjoy healing the world, ONLY in a game, then admit it. And admit also, that it doesnt matter, dont pretend it matters, because if it really did matter in the slightest then you wouldnt have to do it in a game. If you are too cowardly to get up and do something that impacts your life and world, then be honest. Dont act like this game is something more than it is. If you're using it as an escape, then dont pretend its an honourable one. Thats all I ask.
The reason I re-iterate my points, is because I keep being asked the same questions. Im not shooting down anything anyone says - talk to me intelligently, give me your opinion and we'll discuss it. But when you start acting like an immature child saying "YOU CANT TELL ME WHAT TO LIKE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" then thats where I will respond in kind. Talk to me in the way you would like me to talk to you. I'll do the same of course. Im not looking to have my opinions changed, nor am i looking to force my opinions or ideas on anyone. All I'm looking for, is an intelligent exchange and discussion of ideas. If you cant manage that, or if you dont WANT to, then dont pretend you do. Tell me Im wrong if you think Im wrong, but tell me WHY. and I'll tell you why I disagree. We dont have to get up in arms about it, really all we can do here and now is type and read. im gonna make the most of that. If you dont wanna, fine. But I will.
Bullshit. You say this because you ahve nothing left to contribute. So you're gonna fool yourself into thinking now, that this discussion is something less than an intelligent debate. I am here to comment, and to read comments. Im not here to play games. I've got no problem with games, dont be absurd I never said that. I've got a problem with games that replace quite beautiful aspects of our world and life. I have no problem even, with this game; because essentially all it is is crap. Which is fine, there'll always be crap, crap can be quite enjoyable as long as you know its crap. I HAVE a problem, with people who play this game instead of life, and then tell others they should do the same. I dont play halo INSTEAD of life. I dont play fallout INSTEAD of life. I play them for the short enjoyments they bring, for the small achievements, for firing up my brain - they are a Pass-time, nothing else. I dont pretend that they have some beauitful wondrous aspect to them. Because if they were REALLY worth anything beyond being a game, then I'd get up off my arse and seek out those same basic laurels and morals and ideals that make up the game. In my life.
Yeah I'm a psychopath because I enjoy killing people in video games.It's a damn video game.I enjoy it because I know it's not real and and the only thing I am killing is a bunch of pixels.No one is feeling pain, there are no family members to grieve for their fallen family member.Not to mention games aren't realistic looking like a movie.Besides there was one time in GTAIV where I felt terrible for trying to kill someone. Why? Because of the realistic way the victim responded to me stabbing him.Even though it was a video game, the graphics and movement of the victim was great at showing the victims fear.It was as if I was killing a real person and that made me feel exceptionally bad.Just the fact that I felt empathy rules out being a psychopath because when psychopaths kill they don't feel a damn thing when they are killing someone. Just the thought of stabbing someone or breaking someones bone in real life makes me feel quite sickened.
You have NO idea what sort of person I am.Does a psychopath get outraged when someone is murdered? Does a psycho almost cry for the death of someone he never met? Not to mention the fact that I don't like watching horror movies because they actually look like a person is being murdered and I don't like seeing innocent people getting killed.
There you go again.You think you are so god damn smart because you think that anyone who uses curse words does so because they aren't smart enough to form an intelligent response.Have you ever thought that the reason people talk to you like they do is because they are sick and tired of reading your posts.Or the fact that people can actually see that you're not as intelligent as you think you are.You are the only person here (besides the moron who gave you thumbs) that thinks your posts are intelligent ones.But now that I think of it, you are probably the one who gave yourself thumbs because after all, you do have two accounts.Not to mention the fact that you seem to a pathetic enough person to do just a thing.
Seriously get over yourself.Do you admire your precious self in the mirror every damn morning and talk to yourself telling yourself how damn 'intelligent' you are?
No matter how smart you are, there is always going to be someone who makes you look like a 3rd grader.So quit thinking you are so smart because somewhere out there will be a person who would think he's better than you because he knows he's smarter than you.
Point one, you took that out of context. EXACTLY what you said there in your first paragraph, is true. THEY ARE PRESENETD AS SOMETHING UNIMPORTANT, which is enough to make anyone a pyschopath in REGARDS TO THE GAME. If you like killing, then you ARE a pyschopath. But these virtual people are presented as something less than human, which allows ANYONE to be pyschopathic and kill them without a second thought. see? And secondly, tell me something, if those bad things dont matter, if it IS unimportant, and if it doesnt matter if they die, then why do the good things matter in this game? If the bad is unimportant BECAUSE ITS NOT REAL, and you know that, then surely you must know that the good is unimportant also, in this game.
Point 2. I never said swearing is unintellignet. But I tell you something that I find quite disgusting - instead of discussing where you dont agree, you're trying to invalidate what I said. That is what is unintellignet. That is what is weak.
Point 3. I am indeed intelligent. And so are you. I choose to make use of my intelligence. If I'm wrong, then you would quite easily be able to use your own intelligence to show the flaws in my reasoning, and we would decently discuss who believes what. But you're not doing that, what you're doing now, is attacking me personally, because you are unable to argue against my points, or not willing to, i dont know, one of those. We are now on point 3 of the intellectual denial. You are calling me narcisistic. You are calling me egotistic. So what if i am? I indeed am. But that is completely irrelevant to the topic.
Last point, in regards to your last sentence. NO. If someone thinks they're better than me, if someone thinks they're smarter than me, then THEY will fall. There is no one on this planet that can make me look like a 3rd grader. BECAUSE if i am faced with an idea or argument that i cant argue against, then i accept it and i say "ok, i have nothing to say to this currently, what I'll do is I'll go away and have a think about it and I'll come back and we'll discuss it further". Therefore, no one is "superior" to me, because i do not seek to be superior, nor do i allow myself to be inferior. What you want, is to SCREW people over and invalidate them, and get a sick satisfaction from seeing them fall. What i look for, is to exchange ideas. As such, i will never be able to get screwed, cos im not trying to screw anyone. That is my problem with the way that the majority of people are discussing here. Not everyone - there's a few people that have quite decently discussed the actual topic, and we had an intelligent conversation. But the majority most certainly.
I didnt give myself the thumbs by the way man.
In fact your only retaliation so far is to go enjoy the real thing. Art imitates life, no one is trying to replace it. Get over yourself and just enjoy the experience or get the *bleep* on.
No one is better than anyone else.Everyone can do something better than another.Just because someone is better than another in one thing doesn't make them better.In that specific thing yes but no way does it make you better than them all together.
Another thing that shows you don't know shit about me.Ok maybe in your case that is true.Seeing as you even said you are egotistical, then you are one of the few people I do want to see fall.I love seeing people succeed as long as they don't get a big head over it.It's good to take pride in accomplishing something as long as you don't think you're better than everyone else for doing so.I was once watching the audio commentary of Tomb Raider and they said Angelina Jolie was able to do something the stunt men said was impossible.That put a big smile on my face.I LOVE seeing people pull off things others didn't think was possible which is one of the reasons I love DBZ.
No one said it was anything more, you just assumed that.I just said that you can do that in the game, never did I say it was anything more than a game.
It just seems that you THINK others think this game is some otherworldly thing.
I don't think anyone here has said that it's anything more than just a game.People saying this game made them feel something does not mean they think it's some path to enlightenment or some crap like that like you seem to think.
No one is debating this game being anything more than a game and I really don't understand how you could have perceived that in the first place.An artistic game yes, more than a game, no.
Thats a lie. Go and read any sentence of this argument, any of them. Especially your own. BECAUSE, if this is nothing more than a game, then the things that are available to you in this game, the experiences in this game, are available to you TEN-FOLD in your everyday life. So, this game, is as I say - CRAP. I've got nothing against crap. But if you sprinkle glitter on crap, here's a shocker, its still crap
I know what you've said. I dont claim to know you, but I know what you've said. You said, that there is always someone that can make you look like a 3rd grader. That is only true, if you ALLOW it to be true; and that is only true, if that's what YOU are trying to do to others.
Yes, that there, is what people should do with it, or any game, I agree. Instead of getting a jolly out of "ooooh emotionality". IF its THAt emotional, then my point is - real nature will give you a MUCH MUCH greater high. Dont you agree? DOnt you agree, that a tangibile real flower, or an actual real tree, or a genuine proper animal, will make you happier, than a non-existant floating flower?
If im taking things too literally, then people should say what they actually mean. DOnt try and change what this is about. Dont try and make it about ignorance or understading etc etc whatever. My main article of argument is, this game, will NOT appeal to MANY MANY people. Because MOST people, are perfectly happy with our own nature, and our own world. This game, is not contributing any sort of Fantasy element, that'll REALLY push it as a GAME. ALl it is, is a real life nature in a virtual setting, with quite gimmicky features added to it. Look at something like Viva Pinata or Harvest moon for example. Again, its not everyone's taste. But I see what that is, as a game, its a nice game, its a laid-back, its got fantasy elements of things that you wont find in life. AGAIN, if you really REALLY enjoy it, then you'll get more joy out of real life animals and things in that vein. BUT, it is a game, it gives you purposes, and achievements, and things to collect, things to nurture. As a game, as a recreation, its a wholesome experience; it takes advantage of the imagination and of the fact that a gaming system can do the surreal or the otherwise impossible. This game, doesnt have those things, so simply said, I ask that you dont PRETEND that it does. AT least when you speak to me, anyway. Tell yourself whatever lie you want, but carouselambra values honesty.
OH AND BY THE WAY very mature, reporting my answers. YYYYYYEH THAT REALLLLLLLLLLY SHOWS YOUR INTELLIGENCE THERE DONT IT?
Also, I'm not disputing that. I'm not disputing that you'll feel anything. I'm not disputing that you should play this, and enjoy it either; no-one has a right to say that to anyone of course. I just don't like these sort of games. I don't like what they are. They're not quite a game, and yet they're not quite a cultural experience either. They're something in between. And who can you blame for that, as well as the developers, I suppose consumers. Either its a game, for gamers, or its not, in which case it doesnt need to be created as a game. I dont even own a ps3, and im generally inclined to not bother with any virtual console, download systems on any of the consoles, seems like a hack to me, but thats a whole separate issue - so anyway, it's doubtful that I'll ever play this, but if I do, rest assured i'll give you my opinion, on the gameplay. What i'm giving an opinion on here, is on the actual meaning and purpose of this game, and what it achieves. or doesnt. I just dont like how it feels as though the recreational gaming system is slipping its metallic grip further and further into our lives. There has to be a point where you stop and say "yes yes this is very nice, artistical experience and what-not. But, I am now going to go outside, and apply these artistic ideas and experiences, to my life." otherwise it's useless. I can see, WHY they've created a game like this. I would say its due to a different culture - in the East, generally speaking, people are gonna play this, in COLLABARATION with an appreciation of nature, this game will take a back-seat, just as what it is which is a game and something not overly important, thats the way life is. But in the West, generally speaking again, it'll be lost on a lot of people. and they'll play it as a game, whilst pretending it's something more, and not really thinking about what it means, but pretending that they do. Again, the majority have a different way of life. And it's this whole trend, of borrowing each other's ideas; BUT, of only putting them half into practise. You gotta do it all, or none. Embrace the way you are, and then you can change the way THINGS are. There's no quick easy answer to anything.
Due to personal tastes, i dont like these sort of games, I'll be honest.And yet I'm not overly an art fan either, but I know a good painting when i see one. And I can see WHY, people might like a game like this. But i can see also, the truth of why MOST people will play this, and in my opinion, it's not a very fulfilling reason, YET, they pretend it is. Its this double edged sword, of truth and false. They WANT this to be something more than it is. BUT, if you do want that something more, then you're not gonna find it in a game. It's something I can't quite put my finger on. For example, when I played Harvest Moon as a child, it inspired me to have an interest in nature, and it inspired me to have an interest in that idea of growing your own foods and plants and of making a little purpose in the corner of your life. In order to truly enjoy this game, you need to already have that inspiration, and that interest. It's not gonna ignite it in the same way. It doesnt have those same neccessities of achievement, and purpose, and of really, WINNING in some way. You can say you dont need that, but I do. I defintly do. Why do something, if you're not gonna get anything out of it? The only thing this will maybe do, is help you relax. If so, then that's all it does. Maybe it'll get you thinking about things. Again, thats what it does if thats what it does. But I dont see why there's any need to impose this whole "arty culturistic rendition of life" meaning over it. Because it's not there. Just let it do what it does. I cant tell anyone what they'll get out of this, or anything else, nor can they tell me or anyone what we'll get out of it. BUT, as a fellow Human Being on this shared planet of ours, if you are LOOKING for something, I can tell you where you'll find it in greater quantity. if you're looking for nature, you won't find it in your television screen, i can tell you that.
I'm not face palming right now man, I'm desk palming. You're bitching about a game that not only will you NOT play, haven't played and most likely will NEVER play.....but one that you CAN'T play??? Seriously?? LMFAO well enjoy yourself then.
oh I live in the country side i see nature everyday and at this time of year its kinda of dull most things are a shade of brown, so flower has made my winter a little bit more colurful
lol city boy visit the country side a couple a times a feels one with nature
whoops double posted
Certainly not your mate, you presumptious asshole.
Quality vs Quantity. All the lifestory bullshit you've been saying here constitutes a *bleep*ing novel.
I meant that no matter how smart you are, there is someone smarter than you.
Ok where are these posts saying it's anything more than a game.I'm being serious because I don't recall anyone making it out to be anything more than a game.
Again I think you have taken comments the wrong way.
It wasn't me.You haven't really done anything wrong so there's no need to report you.
If im taking the comments the wrong way, then it's because people are not stating their ideas clear enough; there shouldn't be any room for error.
This WHOLe argument or debate or whatever you wanna call it, is about that. Otherwise, there'd be no dispute, would there? When I say, "this is a crappy pointless game" the response would be "yes it is. but if someone gets 5 minutes enjoyment out of it, then what's the harm?" But it's not 5 minutes enjoyment for a lot of people. a LOT of people, are playing it JUST because it's the anti-game. And just because it's something different.
oh no I'm heartbroken your reading comprehension skills are so sub-par that you couldnt copy the last part of my username
So tell me then my friend, if you're not my mate, then what are you? My enemy? That's a lot more presumptious if you ask me.
yeah, 'games' like this are lame to me. YEAH ITS A NEW EXPERIENCE ITS ALL PEACEFUL AND-oh give it a *bleep*ing rest. katamari damaci is peaceful, but at least theres a point to the game and it wont bore my balls off.
I've personally never been a fan of Katamari.Played the demo of the first one and while it was cool, I wasn't interested enough to buy the full game.
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