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LittleBigPlanet's Strict Moderation Continues...

November 16, 2008 in News comments 34

LittleBigPlanet's strict moderation has been a popular topic on gaming sites lately, but the uproar amongst gamers hasn't done much to stop custom-made levels from being deleted. A recent casualty is the creator of Azure Palace...

Do not take this as precedent, that Kotaku is going to get involved in every level taken down on LittleBigPlanet. But the demise of Azure Palace seems newsworthy for a few reasons — one, it's well made (a little too fly-and-grab for me, but still a good level); two, there seems to be no apparent reason for it; and three, it's the big stink in any forum now discussing the heavy-handed moderation on LittleBigPlanet.

Here is the video of the level:


Writes the level creator:
quote
I invested a huge amount of time making The Azure Palace to not only be original, but to shift the gameplay of this wonderful game you guys made. Besides similarities to underwater stages in general, there is nothing directly taken from any game/movie/etc. If there so happened to be one, the terms of moderation are by far extremely irrational. The user is given no chance to change certain aspects of his creation to conform to said rules above. WE'RE NOT EVEN GIVEN A FREAKING REASON AS TO WHY IT HAPPENED!!!
Miss Razz via kotaku.com »
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Most recently commented on by on Nov 19, 2008

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  • 1
    Red 9 Nov 16, 08
    You'd think in an environment adhering to freedom of speech that they'd have a little toleration. It seems here that they're being severely oversensitive as to what is posted. What, was Azure Palace too much like Finding Nemo, or Shark Tale? I bloody played it yesterday, and it didn't seem like anything else. ANd I never even had the chance to fully complete it...

    I even saw an interview with a LBP dev on BBC's Click; they said that they'd have a moderation crew working 24/7, but would be very lenient as to what's posted. This just seems like indescriminate deletions.
    • 0
      Final Blade Nov 17, 08
      Pro-Tip: nothing get deleted without a reason. They had a reason, it violated something(whatever it was, im sure we'll hear about it soon). So I don't see why people think its over sensitive or indiscriminate deletions.
      • 2
        Slumpy monkey* Nov 17, 08
        How can you give a pro tip when your not a professional in the games industry?

        Plus things do get deleted without reason and things also get deleted for minute things.
      • 3
        Capn Droid Nov 17, 08
        He wasn't given a reason, and undoubtedly won't be given one, just like many other great levels that have been deleted without reported reason. I've heard of people being full of shit, but you're taking it to a whole new plane.
      • 2
        kik36 Nov 17, 08
        Pro-Tip: It's better to allow people to think you're a moron, than to open your mouth and prove them right.
        • 0
          Capn Droid Nov 19, 08
          I believe that a medal should be in order for this post.
      • 0
        Final Blade Nov 17, 08
        Sorry I guess I thought to highly of you Slumpy, Capn and kik to get my point through that comment. Let me shorten it for you to your level:

        They delete level cause it violates rules. Just because they didn't state it on the article doesn't mean there wasn't a reason.

        Get that now?
        Pretty much my point, it was more common sense then anything. Oh well.
        • 2
          Krunal Nov 17, 08
          The problem is that there is nothing in that level that COULD violate the rules!
        • 0
          HisServant77 Nov 17, 08
          Well, Krunal, this is why the level appears to be back up and running again. I haven't played it, so I'm only going by what the people at the source forums are saying though.

          If so, it appears this was just another case of his level being griefed/reported, therefore temp taken offline until they checked it out, and Sunday delayed things to an extra day or so, and since it was seen as nothing being wrong with it, they put it back.

          Going by the assumption that it has been put back online again.
        • 0
          Slumpy monkey* Nov 17, 08
          "
          They delete level cause it violates rules. Just because they didn't state it on the article doesn't mean there wasn't a reason. "

          "Well, Krunal, this is why the level appears to be back up and running again."

          "it appears this was just another case of his level being griefed/reported, therefore temp taken offline until they checked it out, and Sunday delayed things to an extra day or so, and since it was seen as nothing being wrong with it, they put it back."


          Suck it FB.
      • 1
        Krunal Nov 17, 08
        Have you actually seen the level? It was absolutely AMAZING, and it was ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE. No features of the games was similar to ANY other game or product available on the market. In fact I'd have thought it was a professional designed level if anything. The fact that the creator wasn't told what went wrong is another nail in the MM coffin. And yes, this really is hurting MM, since I don't see myself getting this game any time soon since any level I make has the possibility of being deleted for no god damn reason.
  • 0
    TheFogIsRising Nov 17, 08
    I watched the whole damn vid and yeah, it looks like a lot of underwater levels. But that's because it is a damn underwater level, they all look similar!! I personally thought it was a very good design and couldn't identify anything that looked copyrighted or trademarked. The boss looked a little like a dragon from Wind Waker, but then you could also say that was a rip off of FFX or even further, Chinese mythology. The point is, so effin' what? If no one is profiting off of it, who is it hurting? As long as people are stoked about it and its not terribly offensive, then we shouldn't care; we should enjoy his art. Of course, if you don't like them censoring the custom levels, don't buy the game. Simple as that (or just go back to Doom and make all the custom levels you want).
  • 0
    Bale Fire Nov 17, 08
    This is starting to go to far, get your act together or I'm going to start sending angry emails Media Molecule!
  • 2
    RabidChinaGirl Nov 17, 08
    That is quite silly. When developers copy each others' designs, it's totally okay, and we excuse it as, "Nothing is original anymore, it's all been done." Now this LBP player creates an underwater level that COULD bear a VAGUE resemblance to an unknown source, and he's kicked in the face for it?

    Also, not surprised he wasn't given a reason. Companies usually don't have to offer anything more than a vague statement like, "...violates terms of use" to get away with swinging the ban hammer or abusing moderation abilities.
  • 0
    The Darkest Shadow Nov 17, 08
    This is just too much. Azure Palace is one of the greatest levels ever made, far superior to some of the half-arsed story levels.

    I played the damn thing to death and there was nothing that violated terms of use. It doesn't make sense.
  • 0
    Ameer Nov 17, 08
    I'm incredibly disappointed at the loss of great levels due to censorship. If anything, levels that infringe increase interest in their subject matter, and there's no logical reason for removal.

    Level Censorship discussion thread on Neoseeker forums.
  • 1
    HisServant77 Nov 17, 08
    These articles are actually getting irritating. It's blown out of proportion too, the levels being deleted are of such low number that ONE PERSON can go through them and check them out within one morning. And I get that number from Media Molecule themselves.

    Not to mention that people keep thinking "Oh, Sony and MM are going around deleting everything they don't like!!" When in fact Media Molecule rely on USERS . . . those who buy the game and play the game . . . to REPORT the levels. Then the levels are placed offline and are checked out by Media Molecule within 24 hours. If it is bad enough to delete, they delete it. If it's alright, they put it back online to use. So don't go yelling at Sony and MM for taking levels offline. Yell at the users who report the levels. MM have their hands tied legally when a level is reported, and they have to check the level out, and if it infringes on the EULA they must delete the level.

    Also . . . most levels being accounted for in deletion . . . are simply not able to be found. They're still online, but because the online userface and search features of LBP right now, it's hard to find levels. I've played levels at the same time as reading online that "OMG! It's been deleted!!! Censorship!!"
    • 0
      kik36 Nov 17, 08
      Make sure to read the full article. The creator himself has had the level removed from his HDD. This isn't a matter of a misplaced level. People are getting pissed because most of the levels that are being deleted (notice I didn't say removed or reported) are legit in our eyes, and NO ONE is telling us as to what they violate in the EULA or where copyright infringement is taking place.

      I do agree with you that the reporting feature needs to be handled a bit differently. Right now it looks like any jealous prick who can't create their own unique level can have yours pulled for at least 24hrs at a time.
      • 0
        HisServant77 Nov 17, 08
        Well MM said they are working on fixing the reporting system altogether. They are wanting to be able to send a message to the creators of the levels, stating specifically what was wrong with their level. They also want to simply give the creators the ability to edit out whatever was wrong and then resubmit the levels.

        As for the levels being deleted from the PS3 HDD, that's not really going on. I know a lot of people are saying after their levels have been moderated, they can't play them even on their moon. However, the thing is, it's still playable. MM addressed that part by saying all they do is keep it from being playable online. So in order for Level creators to play or edit their moderated levels, they need to sign out of the network altogether! (If you are signed in, even if you don't play online in particular, apparently it somehow ties it in with being online even when you just play from your HDD. So you must sign out through the XMB.) Not sure how or why it works that way, but it does. So if anyone can message this guy, or anyone else in the same predicament, and tell them to sign out, it may help them a LOT.

        I think, and hope, they do tweak the whole online system. The search function as well as the good grief feature . . . It just needs to be better like you said. Which . . . I expect them to be working on because it's kinda a must.
        • 0
          kik36 Nov 17, 08
          There are a LOT of conflicting statements going around that's for sure. Sam's saying one thing, but there are people now saying that their level's aren't there even after going offline.

          For me having a level only available offline defeats the whole purpose....most of us play our own levels hundreds of times to make it right.....and not being able to share it with anyone is bunk.

          I really hope for this guys sake that you are right and they will put it back up....the Azure Palace was one of those levels that help to sell this game.
      • 0
        HisServant77 Nov 17, 08
        Yeah I wish I could test these things out personally (but I don't have any moderated levels ). My thoughts, are that if it really is unplayable at all, then somehow it's a mistake or glitch. Because if they're specifically making it unplayable, that would not only be conflicting with what they're saying they do, but in a way that would REALLY bring some bad publicity during a time they don't need it! (What with first the delay, then server issues, and now moderation.) I'd like more than one person from MM to come along and speak on the issue too. Have some more interviews or something too, addressing it all.
        • 0
          kik36 Nov 17, 08
          I agree with you completely. LBP tried to live up to a hype that it couldn't contain. Ever since that delay, it seems to keep tripping on itself.

          Thanks for that other link, I just read that Azure Palace is back up!! So looks like there are things being taken care of afterall.......now let's hope they work on the reporting feature.
        • 0
          HisServant77 Nov 17, 08
          Yeah I just read it apparently was up again too I hadn't been able to play the level yet (just seen videos of it), but after all this I think I'm going to have to try haha.

          And yes, here's to hoping they work on it all, and get it fixed up nicely, soon.
        • 0
          Red 9 Nov 17, 08
          Actually, LBP's done a great job living up to expectations. It's one of the highest rated games of this generation.
    • 0
      Krunal Nov 17, 08
      I don't agree with you at all HisServant77. In fact I think these articles are doing a good job by being here, since they're telling potential buyers of the games and the people that have bought the game about the problems with moderation.

      It'll help people realise that you need to create a copy of the game BEFORE you publish it. And, it'll help get some of the moderated levels back if enough people complain. They CANNOT give you a game which allows you to create your own levels and then delete every level that is actually quite good.
      • 0
        HisServant77 Nov 17, 08
        Well in some ways it's good, but then hearing about it over and over again and again, and most of the time it ending up just being taken offline during the 24 or so hour period before moderation (and not actually being deleted), it just gets tedious. It's like . . .

        Someone tells you "My level's been deleted!"
        You = "No it's not, I'm playing it right now. Try searching for it again, the search feature doesn't always work."
        Someone else = "My level has been moderated! His level has been moderated too!"
        You = "No, I'm playing his level right now. Search again. Your level though was simply griefed are you sure it's been deleted? How long has it been since you noticed?"
        Same person = "2 hours ago I noticed I couldn't get my level online"
        You = "Well then give it 24 hours max for them to check into it because someone probably just jealously griefed you if you didn't violate the EULA. It'll be back online."
        Same person ignoring what you just said = "SONY AND MM ARE MAD DOGS! THEIR CENSORING EVERYTHING! NOTHING GOOD IS LEFT! ALL LEVELS ARE BEING DELETED!!"
        You try to reason with the person, but then someone else comes to you and joins in. Then about 20 more people . . .

        Then you go ahead and tell them "Look, here's a guy with MM, he's saying some information about the moderating issue going on. Check it out for some info that might be going on. If your level has been deleted and you don't know why, go to him and he may help you get the level back up asap, or explain why."

        Then 50 more people come with the mob mentality of "CENSORSHIP! THOUSANDS OF LEVELS ARE BEING DELETED! THE GOOD ONES TOO!!"


        At least, that's how it feels when we have a lot of people, websites, and GameGrep articles that talk about levels being deleted and all that, and not many actually giving an answer or addressing the issue, or going afterward and retracting themselves when those levels were found online during the same time, or very soon afterwards.

        Imagine if it were a game you love, and the issue would be people having trouble doing this or that thing, and then they run with it and ignore any help regarding it. It just feels a bit overwhelming I guess---personally.
  • 1
    tekmosis Nov 17, 08
    I'm rather surprised at this. I haven't really read any of the other moderating LBP articles but there are obvious copyright infringement ie: Mario, Zelda etc based levels. However, from what I know about Azure Palace this does not infringe at all as it is not based on any game out there.

    This makes me wonder if you make a horror level with zombies in it does that mean it'll be removed because someone can say "oh, this level is copyright infringing upon Resident Evil!".

    I'm also surprised that levels based on the likes of American Gladiators, Mirrors Edge etc are still up. Both of these levels are easily found when browsing some of the popular tags (ie: Brilliant). The Mirrors Edge level has been posted on numerous gaming sites as well so it is a well known level, so, why not the moderation on that?

    @HisServant77
    Can you post a source for all those claims you're stating regarding MM? I only ask this because it is Sony that does the moderation of levels, not MM.
  • 0
    Zaek Nov 17, 08
    The Azure Palace was taken down, why? I do not see a legit reason? This is a completely unique level. I also saw world of colour disappeared. MM is annoying me lately and this is pushing it!
  • 0
    Bale Fire Nov 18, 08
    I think I'll wait a while before getting angry about these moderation reports, if Azure Palace is back up, chances are it merely removed temporarily rather than deleted.
  • 0
    Capn Droid Nov 19, 08
    Wait a second... yes, it all makes sense now! It's obviously cheating off of Bioshock! I mean, don't you remember the level with the dragon, and the haunted mansion?

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