In something of a scathing rant towards Xbox Live Arcade (and a massive boost to Nintendo's WiiWare), one developer has spoken out to call Microsoft's download service and its proliferation of retro remakes "full of s**t*."

We’ve known for a while now that Nintendo has expressed a lot of openness to developers when it comes to wooing them to the advantages of creating games for its upcoming download service, WiiWare, but today we learn just how far the firm is prepared to go, by capitalising on the recent bad press received by Microsoft’s Xbox Live Arcade. On the back of this, one new WiiWare convert has spoken out as far to say that Microsoft’s service is “full of shit".
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  • -2
    Sereph Mar 14, 08
    Oh come on, get a real gaming console dumbass.
  • 7
    Xenctuary Mar 14, 08
    Ah, but where's the inherent online play, ubiquitious voice chat, active friend lists, built-in leaderboards, downloadable content, achievements system and custom soundtracks? And that's not to mention the high-definition graphics and purposely confusing Microsoft Points purchase model! Uh, actually, scratch that last one!



    Otherwise fair comments made by Nintendo there. Shame that developer had to break professionalism, though.
    • 1
      Storm Mar 14, 08
      True, but that's not XBLA, it's XBL. On the matter of XBLA, they do bring out some decent titles like Puzzle Fighter, Uno, Bomberman, and some others, whilst Nintendo has the classic Nintendo games from the past, such as Mario, Zelda, etc.. Sure the Wii brings out more titles to choose from, but with XBL, there's more online interaction(three games I mentioned for XBLA can go on live to play others).
    • 0
      CRUNK JUICE Mar 14, 08
      NOt all of 360's games run in High-Definition
      • 1
        Xenctuary Mar 14, 08
        They actually all do, but, similar to the PlayStation 3, very few of them are rendered natively at 1080p.
        • 0
          CRUNK JUICE Mar 14, 08
          Actually no. Fair enough not all games are full HD on the PS3 but not all 360 games run in atleast 720p, if they did the devs would have to take graphical short cuts and not be able to do some affects like full Anisotropic Filtering and stuff like that
        • 0
          Cdemon Mar 14, 08
          You have no idea what you're talking about.

          What X360 game doesn't run at 720p?
        • 2
          Guticb Mar 15, 08
          They don't all run NATIVE 720p, but they do still run 720p. Halo 3 is an example of this. It natively runs at 640p, BUT it's upscaled to 720p, so technically, it is running HD.
    • 2
      BANDITO ATTACK Mar 14, 08
      i like this reply. you are a good man.
    • 0
      Sonic Flash Mar 15, 08
      I agree with Xenc. XBLA is some good stuff.
  • -1
    CRUNK JUICE Mar 15, 08
    Cdemon, no they dont. Most 360 games, even Halo 3, is rendered at 640p and then upscaled to 720p, they could render it at 720p but the game will look shit.
    • -2
      Cdemon Mar 15, 08
      You still haven't given me a list. Halo 3 isn't rendered at your typical 640p, so don't even throw that shit out there.

      Since you're so knowledgeable, CRUNK JUICE (so hard to take you serious with that name) give me some examples.
      • 1
        Guticb Mar 15, 08
        It's been proven that Halo 3 runs at 640p natively. It's simply upscaled to 720p.

        Either way, it runs at 720p, but not natively.
        • 0
          Cdemon Mar 15, 08
          "Halo 3 uses not one, but two frame buffers - both of which render at 1152x640 pixels. The reason we chose this slightly unorthodox resolution and this very complex use of two buffers is simple enough to see - lighting. We wanted to preserve as much dynamic range as possible - so we use one for the high dynamic range and one for the low dynamic range values. Both are combined to create the finished on screen image. This ability to display a full range of HDR ... gives our scenes ... a steady and smooth frame rate, which in the end was far more important to us than the ability to display a few extra pixels."

          -Bungie
        • 1
          Guticb Mar 15, 08
          Your point? It's still 640p.

          Also, your lovely little quote does nothing but admit that the 360 wasn't capable of 720p natively
        • -1
          Cdemon Mar 16, 08
          Like I said, it's not your typical 640p. It's two frame buffers used simultaneously to create one image.

          GG.

          And I love that list, Crunk Juice.
        • 1
          VeGiTAX2 Mar 16, 08
          Er I'm just wondering why I keep seeing the dropping of two frame buffers in this thing.

          Split alternate frame rendering isn't new, it's a method dating way back to the mid/late 90's I'd say it seems that by splitting the video memory as such that Bungie capped themselves on how high they could go. There are many solutions to HDR rendering, although with MS on their backs maybe they didn't have enough time to really explore all the different methods out there to accomplish the same effect without the sacrifice.

          Regardless doing SAFR on a single GPU is a bit odd of a choice and almost overkill to accomplish something that could have been tackled with more invested time.

          In the end I have no direct information on what methods they wanted to explore if they were just trying to use a median luminance, what their histogram threshold was, how they dealt with bright pixels in regard to tone mapping results and so on. But from what other developers have published in the field, it's possible without going out on the limb to force it together over two buffers. There was no need to go the excess step on the GPU and force it to do yet another pass to clean up the LDR before going out. Regardless of "well we weren't satisfied" there are other options that work but just like anything they need invested time.

          In the end, all this "not your typical 640p" stating means nothing. Of course it's not your typical HDR, it's using an excess pass to render again while reducing the memory overhead in the process as a sacrifice to make up for either a lack of time to properly correct the HDR or just to cut a corner. It doesn't make it better, it's not like the 360 was using a hidden secondary GPU to do it.

          A note for those going on about how incapable the 360 is, many companies have already adjusted for the linear sRGB curve and this year there have been publications released to the public so that future devs can release games with proper dynamic range lighting with a fraction of the hassle involved for the console. It's not a case of a system being incapable, it's developers not spending enough time learning the hardware and how to adjust for it. No hardware is perfect, even the PS3 needs special consideration in multi-threading because of the 256kb cache on the SPU's.
  • 3
    Gamesta100 Mar 15, 08
    I don't even own a 360 and I think this guy is full of crap.
  • 3
    Seeker X Mar 15, 08
    According to the article, this is really relating to Designers being under constant pressure when they make games for Arcade, so it's not the system itself, it's the behind the scenes bullshit.
    • 2
      VeGiTAX2 Mar 16, 08
      Generally always ends up that way, usually we hear about the publishers themselves being the ones that impose the heart-ache on developers not usually the service provider itself.
  • 0
    CRUNK JUICE Mar 17, 08
    I love the list to Cdemon...

    Tony Hawk's Project 8 - 1040×585 (with 4XAA)
    Perfect Dark Zero - 1152×640
    Halo 3 - 1152×640
    Call of Duty 3 - 1120×630
    Project Gotham Racing 3 - 1024×600 (2xMSAA)
    Tomb Raider Legend - 1024×600 (2xMSAA)
    Tony Hawk's Proving Ground - 1280×720
    Skate - 1280×720 (4x AA)
    The Darkness - 1280×720
    Call of Duty 4 - 1024×600 (2x AA)
    Elder Scrolls: Oblivion - 1024×600
    Virtua Fighter 5 - 1024×1024

    And that quote you gave from Bungie just really shows how incapable the 360 is.
    • 0
      VeGiTAX2 Mar 17, 08
      Tony Hawk's Proving Ground - 1280x720
      The Darkness - 1280x720
      Skate - 1280x720 (4x AA)

      1280x720 is 720P... your point apparently is titles that aren't native 720 or 1080.

      The resolution lists are quite easy to access. (Beyond3D was nice enough of a source this time)

      PS3:
      Army of Two = 685p
      Call of Duty 3 (screenshot) ~ 1088x624 (2x AA)
      Call of Duty 4 = 1024x600 (2x AA)
      Conan (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
      Def Jam Icon (screenshot) = 1152x648 (no AA)
      GT5 Prologue (demo) = 1280x1080 (2x AA)
      Guitar Hero 3 = 1040x585 (no AA)
      Jericho (demo) = 996x560 (2x AA)
      MX vs ATV (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
      Pirates des Caraibes (screenshot) = 768x1080 (no AA)
      Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction = 1280x704 (2xAA, centered on 720p output)
      The Darkness (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
      Tony Hawk's Proving Ground (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
      Transformers (screenshot) = 960x1080 (no AA)
      Virtua Fighter 5 (screenshot) = 1024x1024 (no AA)
      WWE 08 (screenshot) = ? 640x720 ? (2x AA)

      Xbox 360:
      Call of Duty 3 (screenshot) = 1040x624 (2x AA)
      Call of Duty 4 (screenshot) = 1024x600 (2x AA)
      Conan (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
      Fifa 2006 (demo) = 1024x576 (2x AA)
      Fifa 2007 (demo) = 1200x675 (no AA)
      Halo 3 = 1152x640 (no AA)
      MotoGP 2006 (screenshot) = 1280x1024 (framebuffer grab from AVS Forum member)
      NCAA Football 08 (demo) = 1024x600 (2x AA)
      Oblivion (screenshot) = 1024x600 (2x AA)
      Perfect Dark Zero (demo) = 1152x640 (no AA)
      Pro Evolution Soccer 6 (demo) = 1024x576 (2x AA)
      Project Gotham Racing 3 (demo) = 1024x600 (2x AA)
      Ridge Racer 6 (demo) = 1440x810 (no AA)
      Tomb Raider Legend (demo) = 1024x600 (2x AA)
      Tony Hawk's Project 8 (screenshot) = 1040x585 (2x AA)
      Virtua Figther 5 (demo) = 1024x1024 (4x AA)

      Amazing, they share a remarkable amount of titles not meeting official spec. D:

      Please show both sides next time around.
  • 0
    CRUNK JUICE Mar 17, 08
    Okay fair enough, but bar the GT demo it seems as if its only the multi-platform PS3 games that have been scaled up. Showing either poor porting due to lazy devs and/or the 360 being the lowest common denominator which they have to develop for first. Games that are PS3 exsclusive or had been delayed to make use of PS3 such as DiRT or GRAW2 are running in atleast 720p native. But the fact of the matter is, the 360 is just such as a under whelming piece of kit.
    • 0
      VeGiTAX2 Mar 17, 08
      GRAW2 is laughable as a title to use. If the game is running on the UE3 engine it should run on either platform with at least 720P by default. There's no custom coding to make it run better on any system because the SDK compiles specifically per system.

      Odd, 1 vs 3 1st party titles. Doesn't seem like much to get your undies in a twist over given that 2 of the titles are launch titles from 2005. Again, show both sides.

      Had I a clue about what DiRT was running I'd try to dump insight but I don't follow the series much anymore.

      I'd suggest actually researching tech documents from developers on the systems before boiling off and making claims about a system being under-whelming. The 360 has a linear sRGB curve but it's nothing that ends up being the end of the world. The fact that most developers have adjusted for this for quite some time and that tech papers are out about it for free use seems to indicate that the problem has been addressed in bringing titles over that have been built on the PC as opposed to through the SDK. Until you actually have something to back that up with, I'd suggest avoiding those statements. My prior statements on the 640P Halo 3 Double Frame buffer are merely about the shortcomings of a developer, not of a system nor are they about the hardware inside.

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